Bonus Episode – Disability Spotlight – Being Heumann & The Judy Doll We are excited to celebrate this cornerstone cinematic event. The film Being Heumann releases to select theaters November 6 and streaming on Apple TV November 13. This is a cinematic dream come true. Our roots laid bare for all disability activism happening today. Judy Heumann is the mother of the movement. We miss her dearly. Love you Judy

Transcript

ACTing Up With AJ and Crew: Being
Heumann
Special Episode
November 4, 2026
Introduction
AJ: Hey out there in podcast land! Welcome to an all-new installment of ACTing Up With AJ and
Crew! Today I talk with Ruth Madeley, star, and Siân Heder, director of the film Being Heumann.
[theme music plays]
You know, I often have mocked this phrase, but I think for this episode this is appropriate. Let’s get
to the very special episode of ACTing Up With AJ and Crew. And it starts right now! [bouncy
electronica theme music]
[theme music fades]
Being Heumann Interview
AJ: Hi, my name is AJ Ajani Murray, and I’m with ACTing Up With AJ and Crew. And I’m here today
with Siân and Ruth.
RUTH: Hi!
AJ: Hi! Hi!
[Ruth laughs]
SIÂN: Hi!
AJ: It’s great to be— it’s great to be here. So, I wanna kick off by talking with Ruth. And Ruth, I
would— I wanna ask you, it’s been months since you made the film, and probably at this point
you’ve seen it a lot at this point, but when you first saw yourself on the silver screen telling this
story, what did you feel?
RUTH: You know something, I think it was the first time in my life that— I mean, this has always been
my dream, for a start. I’ve always wanted to, have— see myself leading a Hollywood movie and be
on in the movie theater. I wanted to see myself on that big screen. But I— AJ, I am so self-critical,
and I— no one will pick apart a performance of mine more than me. But you know what? This was
like, I have never felt more proud of the achievement and the… what it took to get this movie made,
the team that were behind it, and the, it was impossible to— I mean, obviously, there was always
times when I’m like, what am I doing with my face?
SIÂN: [laughs]
RUTH: But that will never go away. It was more, for me, it was more, what a privilege to be trusted
with that story. And for me to know that I held up my end of the bargain and promised Siân that she
would have literally all I had to give throughout the whole filming process. So for me, it was such a

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wonderful sense of achievement, of excitement that the audiences who didn’t necessarily know who
Judy was or only knew a little bit about who she was would get to learn her story. And yeah, what a
privilege to have this as my first Hollywood movie. (whispers) First of many. [big laugh]
AJ: Oh, Ruth, we’re just getting started. We’re just getting kicked off. And you’re already— I’m
already getting emotional. So I’m gonna try to be professional and not be emotional.
RUTH: Well, I nearly cried then. So yeah, you’re good. I nearly burst out crying then when you asked
me that question, so.
AJ: With this iconic role of our mother of the movement, and with it being so, like, historic, and as an
actor, ‘cause I have a question for actors, ‘cause I’m an actor myself, like, and I know that you’re a
professional, you have such, you know, you have so many credits, and you’ve had such a long career
at this point, but as an actor, how did you lay down the icon and the massiveness and the weight of
what this is? Because every day you have to go in and just get down to the bare bones…
RUTH: Yeah.
AJ: of being this badass woman. So how did you do that?
RUTH: One of my favorite things as an actor, one of the biggest privileges I have as an actor is the
collaboration with the director. And for me, the reason that I was able to really tap into the human
elements of Judy and the vulnerabilities and the messiness of her and the flawed nature of some of
who she was, was because Siân and I worked so closely on those because it could so easy have
become an impersonation, right? So, it could’ve so easily turned into mimicking this incredible icon
that we, that we know. So, for me, I was… I was so specific. Every… every weekend I would lay out
what we were doing that week and map out, I would spend my Saturday morning with coffee and
my Sunday mornings with coffee, and I would just map out the week.
And I did it in chunks like that so that I could…. It was the simple things, like I’ve always been
showing up, being prepared, knowing your lines, being able to know the scene inside out so that we
could play. That, for me, was a really— And the trust that Siân put in me and the trust that I
absolutely had in Siân to help me in those moments where I perhaps wasn’t getting it, and Siân
found ways that helped me get it.
SIÂN: Well, there was a lot more of Ruth in Judy than I think Ruth knew when she started. Like, I
think when we first— I remember after the table read, we had a conversation, where I was like,
“Ruth, I think there’s more of you in Judy than you know.” And like, and I think there was…. I was
like, this is why I cast Ruth, is like Ruth’s humor is, is very close to Judy’s humor.
RUTH: [giggles]
SIÂN: Ruth, when she giggles, lights up in the way that Judy lit up. And so, I think there was like, for
both of us, a feeling of not putting Judy over here and have Ruth over here, but realizing, like… Ruth
already lived in Judy, and Judy already lived in Ruth. And like, the kind of finding all of that in one
character was really fun.
AJ: Ruth, you’re the number one on the call sheet.
RUTH: Yeah.

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AJ: And this… you’re the star of this movie. And… and, Siân, you’re the director. So I was wondering
if you guys could share how much you want to, or if it’s too intimate, but I was wondering if you guys
could sort of talk about the movie marriage, if you will, between #1 and your director.
SIÂN: Well, I think there is so much pressure on both of those people, right? The director and on the
star of the movie. And I think there was so much pressure on Judy in the story. Like, she led 100
people into this building, and then it was on her to figure out how to take care of people, how to
survive. How were they gonna eat? How were they gonna stay there? How could she inspire them to
want to be there? And I think Ruth and I both, in our own way, had a similar experience in the movie
of almost having to, like, channel Judy and become Judy to make it through the movie with this big,
unwieldy, amazing cast that was this massive ensemble, but a lot of people in every scene and a lot
of personalities. And, like, how do we—
RUTH: And some people who hadn’t been on set before.
SIÂN: And people who’d never acted in a movie before, you know, alongside people that had. So, I
did feel there were moments where Ruth and I were clinging to each other and looking at each other
and going, “We got this.” Like, Judy did it. Judy got people through this, and we can do it. And I
think… that partnership felt like it was the two of us and Judy.
RUTH: Yeah, it really did.
SIÂN: And both of us kind of… looking to each other in those moments. I mean… there were
moments where, like, when Ruth comes out as Judy and gives this speech about wanting people to
stay in the building, and she says, you know, this has been uncomfortable and hard, but this is so
much bigger than us. And I think we looked at each other after that scene, and we were like, that
was, that was you talking to the cast as well. That was not just Judy talking to the protesters.
RUTH: It definitely felt like that for me. And I think the fact that Siân picked me as her Judy was such,
such, such an honor. But also throughout the whole, throughout the whole… time of making this
movie, she was my Judy. So, we were both Judy.
[both chuckle]
AJ: So Siân, I have a follow-up question for you, and then I have a question for the both of you. My
question to you is, Siân, and I apologize in the beginning because this is kinda, this is relative, right?
Like, so in this movie you serve as director, producer, and writer. In this movie, how did those worlds
collide or come together? And then I also, I also wanted to ask you, even though you’ve probably
seen this movie a thousand times by now, it’s been like a six or seven-year journey for you. And so,
even though you’re in the editing room, and you’re eating with this, you’re sleeping with this, is
there a special moment in your heart when you see it on the silver screen?
SIÂN: I love these questions!
RUTH: So do I. These are amazing.
SIÂN: Yes. I would say first, to answer the first part of your question, there’s like the writer, the
director, and the producer part. Like, I would say my writer self writes these scenes that, you know,
once I’m the director, I’m like, “Who the hell thought this was a good idea?” I feel like I’m on set a
lot of the time going, “Some writer thought this was a great moment, and why are there all these
words here?” I don’t need all these words. I can get this with one look. Or I can get this with a visual
that tells me the whole story. So there’s an interesting thing of stepping away from the writer self
and into, like, experiencing your story live when it’s happening in front of you. The producer self, is

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often going, you’ve got a limited budget, you’ve got this many days to get your story. There’s a
greedy director over there, but also you’re like, I’m, I can’t do… this is too ambitious. Or how do we
scale this down? Or is this scene really important? Do we really need this to tell the story?
And so, it is interesting when you’re in all those roles to have to kind of like really enter different
bodies to have those conversations. And I would say, like, the magical part of this film is that… I’m
interested in every character. And so, every time I’ve watched the movie, I watch somebody else.
Like, I’m always watching Ruth ‘cause it’s Judy’s story. But I think I keep… because there’s so many
people in frame and there’s so much life happening on camera—
RUTH: I do the same.
SIÂN: That every time I’ve watched it, I’m like, look at what Charlie’s doing in the back of that scene.
Or like, look at that little interaction that happened back there because I… I succeeded in the sense
that I wanted to capture a very lived-in feeling in the building where a lot was happening at once.
But it’s made the movie really fun to watch so many times because I think there’s always discovery
every time I watch it, even though I’ve seen it a bajillion times.
AJ: I wanna ask a quick question to the both of you, and that is, what was your most joyous time on
set and what was the most hellacious time on set?
RUTH: [hearty, joyful laugh] Oh gosh, what was yours?
SIÂN: Start with hellacious or start with joyous?
AJ: I don’t know, it’s your question, so your choice, your choice.
SIÂN: I’ll start with hellacious. I’ll start with hellacious.
AJ: Yes! I was hoping you would say that.
SIÂN: That U-Haul was the bane of our existence. That U-Haul was so insane because to get up into
it, we had to use the lift and everyone had to get up. And there was a day where it was like two in
the morning. We were shooting at the airport and we had the U-Haul, and we were loading our
actors in. And like, Andrew Pilkington, who plays Hale, tipped back in his chair as we were getting on
the U-Haul. And it was just like… really chaotic and felt very stressful. And I think we felt like this go,
go, go of the movie, of being on location and everyone being physically exhausted. It was really hard.
It was hard on people’s bodies. And it was a moment of going like, did I push this too far? Is the story
that comes out of this that I suddenly get canceled for abusing disabled people?
ALL: [laugh]
SIÂN: Because, like… is that the takeaway from this movie?
RUTH: The moral of the story is—
SIÂN: Yes. Siân Heder really did abuse disabled people. Yeah. And so, that was probably like a
moment for me of going like, we have to reevaluate how hard we’re pushing and like, and take care
of people while we’re shooting and make sure that everything is really safe and thought about and
all of that. I would say my joyous moment on set, there were so many. I mean, shooting that party
where the Black Panthers came in and everyone started smoking weed and dancing, and there was
so much fun happening on set. The dance party went so hard that I called cut 17 times, and nobody
heard me.

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AJ: [chortles]
SIÂN: And finally, I ended up having to dance into the shot to just stop everybody.
RUTH: Stop, stop, stop.
SIÂN: I was like, cut, cut, cut, cut, let’s cut. But it was just a sign for me that people were genuinely
having so much fun that it was like no one, people forgot we were in a movie. And that was a really
fun day. What was your hellacious?
RUTH: I wasn’t there for that.
SIÂN: Oh, you weren’t there.
RUTH: [laughs] I wasn’t allowed. Judy wasn’t allowed to have fun.
SIÂN: You were only there for the hell.
RUTH: No, I was only there for that. No, for me, you know something? I think I’m gonna speak from
it as a, from a personal perspective of my experience as a disabled person. I remember one
day…when my body was really, really struggling. I remember it was a particular day and it was…. I
have chronic pain, so my pain was really kicking my ass that day. And I remember being outside at
like 1:00 AM and then it started to rain. [laughing] And I remember, I remember being so…so
overwhelmingly tired, but also like so ferociously determined that…we were gonna get that scene
and my body wasn’t gonna be the reason that we didn’t get that scene. Even though I know that if
I’d said to Siân, “I need a, I need… you, it’s, we got, I gotta stop,” she would’ve, she would’ve found a
way round that. But I think that, that for me, I think those days of…of just physical exhaustion of that
one in particular. I remember, in fact, it was halfway through the movie and I remember thinking,
oh, this is…we’re just halfway.
But then I think one of the most joyous, I think two things. For the most joyous, I would say literally
sharing that screen with every single person on set, everyone having the privilege of sharing the
screen with every one of those cast members. That, for me, was the biggest privilege. But also I’m
gonna say that—not in a bad way— when we finished! But, you know, I remember being on set and,
and our first, Walter, he yelled, that’s, “That’s a wrap.”
And I remember looking at Siân and I… it was that feeling of I, my body didn’t fail me because Apple
and Siân put the stuff in place to make sure that I was able to finish that movie. But also I knew what
it took for Siân to get that movie made, like greenlit, made, finished, done. I remember that moment
of looking at her and being like, “We… we fucking did it.” [delighted laugh]
RUTH: Thank you so much.
AJ: Thank you so much.
SIÂN: Thank you.
AJ: My cinematic dream came true. Thank y’all so much.
RUTH: Thank you!
SIÂN: Thank you.

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[chill electronica]
AJ: Before we get started, guys, this comes to us from BeingHeumannMovie.com.
Content Roundup
Now it’s time for your Content Roundup, and today, guys, is a all Being Heumann edition. There are
two ways to see the film. Let’s kick things off with the theatrical release. It starts on November 6th,
but in honor of the 504 Rehabilitation Act, you will be able to get tickets for $5.04. That starts on
November 9th and ends on November the 11th. The second way you can watch the film is on Apple
TV, which starts streaming on November 13th. Now you can do this by signing up for a 7-day free
trial or looking at Apple promotions. Being Heumann will be streamed with accessibility services
such as large text, zoom, and VoiceOver. Other access needs include subtitles and captionings in 41
languages, audio description in five different languages.
[electronic whoosh]
News Feed
And now it’s time for News Feed. Now we’re gonna check in with the headlines and the stories that
will impact disability culture. In today’s episode, we’re talking about the movie that’s all about 504,
Being Heumann. And we’re almost approaching the 50th anniversary of 504, and wouldn’t you know
it, 50 years later, nearly 50 years, 504 and other disability rights are under serious threat. Here to tell
us more of the story is Cheryl Green.
[mellow electronic music]
CHERYL: Here’s a Brief summary of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. It states that “‘no
qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits
of, or be subjected to discrimination under’ any program or activity that receives Federal financial
assistance. As explained by the National Center on Health, Physical Activity, and Disability, ‘simply
stated, this law stipulates that whatever is provided for individuals without disability must also be
provided for individuals with disability.’ Section 504 laid the groundwork for the eventual passage of
the Americans with Disability Act in 1990.”
And some news from earlier this year, Special Needs USA posted:
“On June 18, 2026, the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel issued a 39-page opinion
arguing that the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act do
not require states to serve people with disabilities in their own homes and communities rather than
in institutions.
The opinion concludes that neither the ADA nor Section 504 contains a strict integration mandate.
That mandate is the principle, affirmed by the Supreme Court’s 1999 Olmstead v. L.C. decision, that
people with disabilities have the right to receive services in the most integrated setting appropriate
to their needs, which usually means at home and in the community rather than in an institution.
Professor Barkoff, who worked in the Obama Justice Department leading its Olmstead enforcement
efforts, was quoted on NPR’s All Things Considered saying: “We are incredibly concerned that the
message coming from the federal government in this memo is, ‘It’s fine to go back to the days that
people were placed in institutions…’.”

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And as reported online by The Arc: The DOJ first challenged the longstanding interpretation of the
integration mandate, then moved away from its Olmstead guidance, and later joined the states in
Texas v. Kennedy in asking the court to remove community-integration language from HHS’s Section
504 regulations. The court has now approved that agreement.
And lastly, from the National Council on Independent Living: The Defend Community Integration
Coalition (DCIC)- Texas v. Kennedy Abandons Federal Commitment to Community Integration, from
September 24, 2026.
“A September 3, 2026 letter signed by 18 governors was sent to Attorney General Todd Blanche at
DOJ stating, ‘As Governors, we are deeply concerned by the federal government’s retreat from its
longstanding role in protecting the right to community integration, and stating…We strongly oppose
any federal actions that would weaken protections against unnecessary segregation or diminish the
right of people with disabilities to receive services in the most integrated settings appropriate to
meet their needs, consistent with established Olmstead precedent. Community integration is not an
abstract legal concept. It means having a home, being able to work, attend school, shop, worship,
build relationships, and participate in an ordinary civic life.’”
Of course, there’s tons more to say about Section 504 and the backsliding on the Olmstead ruling,
but this is some really good context for why Judy’s story, and the whole community’s fight, remain
so important today.
[electronic music builds, then ends]
Wrap-up
AJ: Now, if you wanna check out more on the 504 sit-in, sort of as a primer before you see Being
Heumann, check out Crip Camp on Netflix and YouTube. Captions and audio description are available
for your access needs.
[theme music returns]
Thanks for joining us for this special installment of ACTing Up With AJ and Crew. This episode was
produced by Cheryl Green and yours truly, Ajani “AJ” Murray. Co-produced by Thomas Reid, ACTing
Up contributor Adam Grimes, research producer Jessica Marks, and I wanna give a special thanks to
Mom, Cynthia, for behind-the-scenes assistance. Thanks, Mom!
[chill electronica]
From all of us here at this show, we wanna wish you love, equality, peace, and justice. Join us again
next time, my friends. [electronic music builds]
[music fades]